Inside A One Person Business - An Interview With Phoebe Dodds
Join Ellen as she sits down with Phoebe Dodds, a strategist for startups. Phoebe specialises in helping businesses reach their dream audiences through marketing, partnerships and other creative methods. She is also co-founder of a dinner club called Food For Thought.
Phoebe Dodds is a specialist in social media and digital marketing. She cut her teeth in the entrepreneurial sphere at just 16 years old - becoming a teen journalist. Following her curiosity for writing, she secured freelance gigs on the side at University before attending business school. Highlights for Phoebe include writing for Harvard Business Review and lecturing at several notable universities, whilst securing consulting roles across VC funded startups, bootstrapped businesses and Government bodies. Despite never having designs to become an entrepreneur, Phoebe embraced her skills and interests and carved her own one person business by following her curiosity.
Her business model focuses on consulting, workshops and hands on help but Phoebe has designs to scale even with a full roster of clients.
In this episode Phoebe and Ellen discuss:
How joining the dots looking back can help inform your strategy moving forward
Her approach for generating new leads and business; securing sales without ever actually selling
How a cold email to Harvard Business Review became her proudest career moment
Her plans to scale her business whilst having a full roster of clients
Examples of risk taking, betting on yourself and the risks that pay off big in business in the long run
Read on for the full transcript.
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Ellen Donnelly
Hi, Phoebe. Welcome to The Ask’s One Person Business Interview Series. How are you doing?
Pheobe Dodds:
I'm good. Thank you for having me.
ED: I'm excited to talk about your business. I've been following you for ages, and we've chatted a few times, but for people watching’s benefit, would you give an intro to you and what you do across your various business ventures?
PD: Of course. So my name's Phoebe. I run a business called BURO155. And I'm essentially a strategist for startups. I help them reach their dream audiences in a number of different ways through marketing, through partnerships and through some more creative methods, which I'm sure we can get into later. And on the side of that, I also run a dinner club called food for thought with my co founder, Gemma Perlin. We're based in London for that, but we've also run dinners in Paris, Amsterdam, and Berlin. So far so that's a quick intro to me.
ED: Thank you. Yeah, let's get into some of the details. So I was doing a bit of stalking, I noticed that you started out at the age of 16. So you've been in like the world of content, startups, media for a majority of your, like, career and, and even into the childhood. Did you always have this plan to be in this world?
PD: No. I had quite a wacky career path that led me here. So, when I was a teenager, I really wanted to become a journalist. So this was let's say 2010 ish. It was such a thing to, you know, want to write for Team Vogue and be editor in chief of Cosmo. That was the goal. I'm sorry for the sirens in the background. And I sort of, I thought I would have this New York City, all glass corner office walking into, you know, my workplace with a Starbucks and whatever by my mid twenties.
But over time, I just kind of was turned off the idea of journalism. I think it was... I don't know why it was actually, but I, I really enjoyed being a teen journalist. I started writing for the Huffington Post and I wrote about everything from Justin Bieber to gun crime to modern art learning languages And they gave us completely free reign, which was really cool And then from there I started writing for businesses as kind of a side hustle at University to make money, and then that turned into actually more marketing side of things did a bunch of internships and then went to business school, so I definitely did not set out to run my own business, but it very much happened over the course of kind of eight years, I'd say.
ED: Well, it sounds like you had that entrepreneurial spirit, even though at first you thought it would be in a editorial office, and then it became side hustle to today where you seem to have so many things going on. So what would you say over the years has been some of the highlights, some of the things you're proudest of in this?
PD: Yes. Hmm. That's a great question. So definitely my biggest professional success, I would say, has been writing for Harvard Business Review, which I started doing a year ago. And that was great. It was a major bucket list item because I always wanted to write for them. And once again, it was such a reminder of how easy it actually is when you take action.
And people often ask me, how did you meet them? Did you know someone there? I emailed. Submissions at HBR.org… literally, I just said, ‘Hey, I have a pitch idea’, sent the idea. And when I woke up the next morning, they'd accepted it. That that was it. And so I love that as kind of a lesson when people say, you know, Oh, I want to get some other things published first, or I want to do this and that first before I go for the big thing.Well, you, you can and should, but you can also just go for it and see what happens.
So. That was definitely a recent highlight. I also was very proud of myself for having gone to business school a few years ago because I did a humanities bachelor, so it was very much word focused and I was studying literature, cultural, that kind of stuff for my, for my bachelor. And then when I went to business school, it was all maths and it was super intense. I passed, I got a good grade, but I really had to work harder than I've ever worked for anything in my life, for sure, to be able to pass master's level finance. I can't count, I still can't to this day. So that was a huge achievement for me.
ED: I feel like both of those examples of things where you've just chosen yourself and gone, why not me? Why not me for the Harvard Business Review? Why not me for Business Masters? Like, yeah, maybe on paper, I haven't got these publications, I've got this background in education, but give it a go and see and your real testament to the to the results that come from that.
So, yeah, there's no there's no gatekeepers a lot of the time in these fields you just choose yourself and that's what I love about entrepreneurship and one person business building, you have to be the one to say, right, it's me. I also had a note that you are a university lecturer. Do you still do that? How does that fit into everything?
PD: So that is something that I was approached on Instagram for a few years ago from someone at the London College of Fashion. She was head of the Masters of Fashion Entrepreneurship and she really wanted to have a guest section from someone on social media. So I started doing that for her, which was amazing. And then from that, I started Lecturing for UAL, the Arts London, on a more general level, talking about things like how to become a freelancer, taking part in their careers week, which was amazing. More recently, I have been guest lecturing at Kingston University Business School. Which is also great. So that's on their Digital Marketing Masters. And it's just sort of what tends to happen is they have a program about entrepreneurship or whatever that people do as their course. And then they bring on a few real life people to sort of add some color to their lectures and to give their students some real life.
Applications of the stuff that they're learning. So that's super fun. I really enjoy it. And yeah, it's just kind of a bit one off a few times a term or whatever. Yeah, that's really cool. I'm guessing it's also inspiration for the students of what's possible in their career paths. As you asked that example, what you can do.
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ED: So let's get into the business side of things. Like tell us a bit more about your services, what you offer, the business model, like if you could break down how you actually work with startups, that'd be amazing.
PD: Sure. So I like to be flexible around them because obviously every startup looks different. Some are bootstrapped and have very little money. Others have the venture capital funding, which. Might mean that they have a lot of cash, but also that they have to report to people so they might have different criteria because they need to justify hiring someone in a way that starts up to a funding that company themselves don't have to and then there are other companies that are privately funded or whatever.
So there are, there are lots of different, the, the ecosystem is full of all sorts of companies. And that means the way that I work with companies is very different. So at the moment I work with one startup based in the U S for a big chunk of time on a week by week basis. Because we're building the startup, we're doing the go to market strategy, commercial strategy, and then also the growth and community building that comes with that, which is amazing.
So that's a really great meaty project, which I started back in July, which I'm really enjoying because that's something that I think I was missing for a while in my business because the nature of what I do, you need to work with companies on quite an in depth level or else you're not going to be able to have the impact that you're looking for.
So that's kind of when I work with companies on a very in depth. level. But aside from that, I also do some founder personal branding, which is really great. Some founder LinkedIn trainings. And then I have a couple of startups that I will work with, let's say one day a month, two days a month, three days a month in a sort of support function with marketing growth, community stuff.
And that's essentially it. It's a complicated answer because it looks different with everyone, but that's nice for them. And it's nice for me because it keeps things very varied.
ED: It does sound really interesting, especially going from, yeah, what does a VC backed business need? They've got deeper pockets. They can afford you on that retainer basis versus new LinkedIn up and running. Oh, she knows like a short, sharp engagement. So for people watching, thinking, yeah, I'd love that variety. I'd love to do similar stuff to what Phoebe does. How do you think about client acquisition and marketing yourself? Is it a lot of referrals?
Do you do a lot of outreach? Like what does that mixture of activities look like to get to that point of having all those different clients?
PD: So I think the first thing that I think of is having a baseline level of stability in my business. That means I can pay my bills and I can save and cover all the costs that I want to, and not have to run around looking for clients every day of the week. So that was the big driver for me earlier this year to moving towards more of a retainer style or working with clients on a more in depth basis, as opposed to there have been periods in the last few years where I've worked. Literally only on really short, sharp engagements, but then with 12 different businesses in one month.
And that's way too hectic for me. So client acquisition depends on the type of clients I'm trying to get when it's a longer retainer style client, it's always do my personal relationships that I build strategically. So let's say. If I knew that the current gig that I have would be ending in December, and I'd be looking for something in January, I'd be focusing now on having as many meetings and intros with founders and startups I'd love to work with as I can and kind of planting that seed.
I think also with startups, it's important to remember that they don't know what they're going to need in January. Things change so quickly. So, You also have to be flexible to a degree. And then when I'm looking for the sort of shorter, sharper engagements, my newsletter and LinkedIn are the best way to go through that.
And also some of the communities that I'm in, like Found and Flourish and some Slack groups, those tend to be how I find the most clients for those. So yeah, it kind of depends on the work I'm looking for. Yes, it sounds like for the smaller projects, you can kind of be a bit more Hey, I've got availability.
This was an offer, maybe put up a sales page or an offer in some way in those communities in the newsletter in the slack channels. But then when it comes to the media retainer based projects, it's a bit more strategic, it's networking, it's being top of mind.
ED:So just to get into that next level of tactical detox, I'm sure people are thinking, yeah, but how do you actually get time on a call with the founder of a brand you love? Cause like surely everyone wants to speak to them. What, what do you say or how do you approach them in a way that's not too salesy, perhaps?
PD:
So I make sure it's not salesy at all, and I never pitch myself, ever. It's very much the long game. So what I have found is when I've gone through a period of less work, and let's say I'm really hustling to meet as many people as possible, I will then see a few months down the line, some of these founders that I initially approached with a view to working with them have literally become normal friends that I can text and say, hi, do you want to grab a coffee next week?
And so that's really my method. There's literally no sales. At all involved. So I start off by making a list of, let's say 20 startups that I would be interested in working with, connecting with the founders on LinkedIn. And then, you know, engaging with their content a bit, finding out a bit about them online.
And then literally eventually saying, Hey, I've been following your journey. I'm super interested in what you do. Would love to jump on a call and chat. And I do that all the time. Let's say up to. Between two and 10 calls a week, depending on how much work I need or I'm looking for, but I make a really big effort to do that all the time, even when I'm so busy.
So this week I'm speaking to a founder who just graduated from Stanford and who has an amazing product in beta that he wants to chat about reaching European I'm also speaking to someone who runs a VC fund based between Europe and New York. So all these kinds of things that I have in the pipeline, I'm ready to sort of come to fruition as and when I need them.
And I think that's the big thing that people forget, like the long game is so important.
ED: Thank you for sharing. I think that's so powerful to hear the realities of what it takes. And it does take time and effort and hustle and grit and reaching out to people and being what I call in my kind of coaching conversations, being vulnerable or putting yourself out there in a way that doesn't feel great at the start, because there's that fear of rejection.
However, the more you do it, it's like a muscle that you train in the gym. And now your success rate says to yourself, mentally, Phoebe, this works. It's going to come off in the long run. Worst case, I make a friend, like how cool is that? So that's great. And it shows you just like time on the calendar with meetings is the starting point, how do you fill your week without any expectations of sales?
That's, it sounds fun, but it's obviously comes at a cost to your time.
PD: Yeah, but they're always interesting founders and sometimes people say, Oh, there's someone else I can introduce you to or whatever. But if you have 30 minutes with someone. And you start asking them, I'm so interested in your startup. You know, how did you build this? Blah, blah, blah. As soon as the conversation turns to you, that question is what do you do? And then you essentially are selling yourself without selling yourself. So I don't consider myself good at sales or anything like that. And the idea of sales is not something that I feel like I know much about, but it's literally just conversations.
And I can't imagine messaging someone's like, Hi, do you need a... growth and content consultant, you know, like I just don't think that would work for me at all. But this approach really means your network is sort of always growing. You often find ways to connect people to each other as well, which I do as much as I can to sort of invest in that network and keep it sort of warm, I guess. And that really helps when you are looking for work. So it's an approach that's worked really well so far.
ED: Well, my next question is like, how have you built your one person business around your personality, your values, your passions, your curiosities? That combination of things is what I call your unique contribution, and it informs why you do what you do, how you do it, how you market yourself, how you show up. So you've obviously shared a little bit about that, but has there been intentional decisions you've made to align your business to things like your strengths or personality or values? And if so, what are they?
PD:
Yeah, it's definitely more sort of connecting the dots backwards as opposed to setting the, making that choice intentionally. But if I would have done that, it would have saved me a lot of time and energy, getting things wrong and listening to the wrong people. I think the clearest way for me that I've done that is by following the things that I do anyway. So I love to stay on top of trends, new products, new people, articles, whatever's coming out.
And I've almost started to productize that knowledge by sharing it with people for whom it's useful. And the same goes for my network. So I had a conversation recently with someone who runs an online awards Yeah, online awards, I suppose, that you can apply for and whatever. And they're really cool for the, for the marketing industry.
And I was just telling her that I had this really big network across Europe, probably from friends and living and studying or whatever. And then literally a week later, she said, I'm doing this, an event, an agency in Amsterdam, and we need more people to attend. Can you help us? And that was a super easy and fun task for me because all I had to do was reach out to a few people that I'm friends with and say, Hey, there's this cool event, you should go take a friend. And that was something that I would do anyway. In my daily life, just because it's nice to share cool events with nice people. And if you can do that as part of your career in business, it's very much a win win.
ED: Yeah, I think what I'm taking from this conversation about you and, you know, for people watching who feel like they would like to do these things, it's leveraging what you enjoy, which is being curious about people, networking, you're very social, you've obviously got a big social network, let alone a professional network. So it's like using that to your advantage and saying how does this feel like play? What could I do that I would do anyway? Oh, wow. I got paid to provide a list of people that are cool. Perfect. Like win win.
PD: And that was a question that a friend asked me actually, about two years ago that changed the game for me.
She said, What would you ideally like to be doing? And I said something like, well, I'm doing this, but I wish I could be doing that. And she just said to me, well, do it then. And I actually thought of that as an option. And then now that's exactly what I do on a day to day basis.
ED: What's the the combination of things that you're also up to and how do they fit in? Cause you've got the dinner party series that you mentioned and then you've got a work in progress mystery thing on your LinkedIn, which is a work in progress. Can you reveal any more about either of those?
PD: Yes. So work in progress is a work in progress. Which is essentially going to be the umbrella of which Food for Thought, the dinner club is one thing. And everything is sort of...so those things will eventually be interlinked, but it's very hard to balance, obviously so many different things at once. And especially if clients are having a busy period for whatever reason, and I need to jump in there. Obviously my own side hustles are going to take a backseat for the moment, which is fine.
But that's definitely something that I'm looking to launch into the world in October, November time. Which is going to be really nice. The dinner club also came about so organically that we didn't have a sort of long term strategy at all. And so that's what we're sort of doing at the moment. My co founder and I are taking things back to basics and really thinking, okay, where do we want to go from here? What do we want to do down the line? And yeah, that's really nice. Really cool. Watch this space then we'll see what comes out of it, but it sounds like it's all starting to fit together under this umbrella of, yeah, the things we've been talking about, networking for business, knowing cool people who are doing great work.
ED: What else are goals, plans, things that you're looking forward to over the next six, 12 months for your one person business?
PD; That's a great question. My big goal is to write a book. So I've been thinking about that. I'm a huge reader and I love reading business books. So I am seeing also all my friends at the moment are getting books published, which is super exciting. And I've my mood board, my vision board so I'm hearing about the process from them, even got some kind introductions. And so that's my big personal business goal. And then on a more business business level, I think getting more consistent with the sort of output newsletter, et cetera, et cetera, that I do for my own business, because that's very hard and hopefully keeping working with the startups that I'm working with, because that means that they'll still be successful enough to pay me at least. So yeah, I'd say those are my upcoming goals.
ED: That will show that you've done your job well, that they can afford to keep you and need your services to grow further.
PD: That's the thing, that's the incentive of doing a good job.
ED: Very cool. Well, I've, I kind of had a question in mind, but I think you sort of answered it around, you know, when I have this conversation with clients a lot around, how do I stop training my literal hours for money? And I think there's a real value to be had in doing that because it's guaranteed income. You show up, you do your work and you get paid. Right. And as a freelancer or one person business owner, that's often. Required and necessary, but as you become fully booked or as you lean into what you love and wanna kind of stop doing a bit of everything that time comes, that you can productize what you know, that you can scale in some form.
It sounds like you are doing that through your knowledge, through contacts, through writing a book in some way. Fingers crossed. How do you think about scaling Phoebe productizing what you do?
PD: I think one thing that I want to revisit now is, Some simple digital products, especially for the type of thing that I'm working on at the moment, I think.
What I, what I saw recently was I did a one off LinkedIn workshop back in, I have no idea when it was, probably March ish, just my usual one hour workshop, charged the standard, oh it was one and a half hours, 30. And what I did was, I didn't take it off the website immediately, by accident. And then a week later, four or five people had already messaged saying, I missed it, can I buy the recording? And it wasn't even, you know, a nicely recorded thing, whatever. It was literally just the recording for Zoom. They, and I said, yeah, sure. If you want it. So they bought it. I sent them the recording and I got some really, really nice feedback. And then, so I left it up for a bit longer and I had, and I changed the wording to say, you can just buy the recording if you want.
And in that time, so many people, I've not marketed it once. I've not mentioned it once. I've not put it in a newsletter. So many people have just bought the workshop, because it's up there. So it really made me see digital products in a new way. And that's one thing that I want to revisit before the end of the year, sort of having a couple of products up there that people can access in their own time and dip into as and when without me needing to lift a finger, essentially.
ED: Yeah, I often say there's no such thing as true passive income, because you normally have to market something actively to make the passive income, but in your case it was quite passive, so well done. There'll be a few more, but you're active, right? You're actively doing other things that are creating interest in what you're up to. So we're coming up to time, so I'd love to ask you what you want to do in terms of connecting with people, how could they find you, maybe even work with you, what? Where would you like them to go?
PD: Either my website, Instagram or LinkedIn would be your best bets.
ED: Reach Phoebe wherever you are, I will put your links.
And yeah, I look forward to catching up soon. Thank you so much for joining today.
PD: Of course. Thank you so much for having me.
ED: See you, Phoebe. Bye.
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